Monday August 25, 2003

Jesus died in Kashmir

Category: Opinionated | 22 Comments | Posted 1:04

I've just watched an absolutely fascinating BBC4 program called Did Jesus Die, which looked at different theories surrounding Jesus, his crucifixion and resurrection, as well as the rest of his life.

Apparently it was perfectly possible to survive crucifixion. In fact, they said it was rather unlikely that Jesus died after only 3 or 6 hours as stated in the different Gospels. Death by crucifixion takes several days - you finally die suffocated after the legs cannot support you any longer and your body's weight on your arms crushes the ribcage. This process can be (and sometimes was) accelerated by breaking the legs, but this was not the case for Jesus (according to the Bible of course).

So the idea is, he was declared (and may well have seemed) dead - some people link this state to the "vinegar-imbibed" sponge he was given by the disciples (a drug to sedate him?) - then he was taken off the cross and put in the grave. The fact that Joseph of Arimathaea took aloes with him into the grave (a healing herb, not an embalming one!) supports the idea that Jesus wasn't dead.

So after "rising again" Jesus of course had to flee the country as he was a condemned man. So where does he go? He travels East. Now here's the interesting part... remember the three Sages who visited the child Jesus in the stable? Well, the theory goes that they may have been buddhist monks - you know how when a lama dies, they wander about looking for a new incarnation. This, so they say, would also explain why there are absolutely no accounts of Jesus' life between the age of 14 and 29: he was in fact in India learning about Buddhism, where he was known as Issa - local legends and scrolls do indeed tell of St Issa.

As a matter of fact, Jesus' teachings take much from Buddhism (and are rather far from the Old Testament, i.e. Judaism). The program illustrated this with several examples which of course I do not remember. But anyone can see that "love thy enemies" is closer to the peaceful buddhist teachings than to the "an eye for an eye" from the Old Testament.

Right, so after being 'resurrected' from the cross, Jesus travels east. Again, there are documents to illustrate this. He is known as Yuz Asaf and preaches until a very high age. His tomb is said to be in Srinagar in Kashmir. During my online research I found out that some US researchers are/were attempting to exhume the body, but with the church being a holy site they won't stand much of a chance. There are however, near the tomb, the carved footprints of Yuz Asaf and these bear marks that could stem from a crucifixion.

I find this absolutely fascinating stuff. I know anyone can claim anything and history, especially this far back, is a rather unprecise science. (Other theories claim that Jesus fled to the Camargue with Mary Magdalen and had children with her. Again, there are local legends to support this.) But this sounds as plausible to me as anything else (I especially like the explanation of his resurrection), and if nothing else it makes for a nice story.


I thought it was told that Jesus had died after days. I also can't believe that he could have died after only a few hours, and from what I know these people that were punished like that mostly hung there for days.

What I just once read was that he probably didn't die with the head up in the air, but instead with the head to the bottom - unlike what it's shown like in pictures. There were different times when they used different methods, and I read at Jesus' time they had hung them with the head down. That way you'd die faster, too.

The theory that he took much from Buddhism is interesting though. Sounds possible. From my old friend Maria I know that Jesus wasn't that conform with the church anyway, and he didn't like that his parents went to church, because he believed God is in your heart and all around, not just at a place like a church. My friend said that Jesus had once criticized his parents for going to the church.

I personally also believe all these churches are total rubbish and a waste of money. But there people can gather to prove to others that they pray and then go back home where nobody knows what they're doing in reality.

Posted by: Michelle at August 25, 2003 08:07 AM

Obviously but we're looking at this from the Christian point of view and not the "I do what I like" point of view.
This is purely from what the gospels say - according to those, he died after 3 or 6 hours. Never heard of him, or anyone else, being crucified upide down.

And of course Jesus wasn't "conformist" - he was a revolutionary and started a new religion!

Posted by: Clarissa at August 25, 2003 11:42 AM

Fascinating. Thanks for that. Always good to broaden one's mind and consider alternative scenarios to the one with which we are familiar. Your entries are never less than interesting and varied Clarissa, whatever their subject, light-hearted or serious. The best blog I've seen.

Posted by: Marvin at August 25, 2003 12:19 PM

Aaawwwww thanks Marvin!
Now wasn't that a far too positive post for a depressed robot?

Posted by: Clarissa at August 25, 2003 01:06 PM

>>Now wasn't that a far too positive post for a depressed robot?>>

Yeah, sorry about that, I suffered a temporary malfunction That's been fixed now and I can see the truth.........your blog is a load of boring old rubbish!

Posted by: Marvin at August 25, 2003 01:17 PM

Oh my that's fascinating... not that I care much about Jesus or any other gOD tho. hehe Atheists rule!

Posted by: RS78 at August 25, 2003 03:08 PM

Yay, 3 atheists in a row. I still find Jesus interesting, or theology in general. One needs to understand belief to understand humans.

@ Marvin. *sulk*

Posted by: Clarissa at August 25, 2003 03:14 PM

Read this interesting student's work about the crucifixion (in German).

Posted by: Tobias at August 25, 2003 03:33 PM

Freaking long. Will read when I get back

Posted by: Clarissa at August 25, 2003 03:46 PM

>>I still find Jesus interesting, or theology in general. One needs to understand belief to understand humans.>>

Me too. I'm an atheist, but I'm also interested in history, anthropology and psychology (among other things, but those are the relevant ones here), and ALL religions, (past or present), are connected to all of those subjects. Hence, even atheists can be interested in theology.

Posted by: Marvin at August 25, 2003 04:05 PM

>> And of course Jesus wasn't "conformist" - he was a revolutionary and started a new religion!

Sure, but in his religion they obviously still waddle to churches and stuff. If the religion was what he wanted it would probably be "Pantheism".

Here [German] is a small story about executions and the ways they cruzified people, including the head-down-version.

Posted by: Michelle at August 25, 2003 06:36 PM

>>and if nothing else it makes for a nice story.

cUUUUUUte! lol

Posted by: squiZZ at August 25, 2003 07:58 PM

LOL "waddle" is copyrighted to BML Me
Ah yes @ that page. That only states that the upside-down hanging was one variant, not that it was used on Christ. It would contradict any source I've read including the Bible (er, not that I've read the Bible but you know...

@ squiZZ. *lol*

Posted by: Clarissa at August 26, 2003 01:08 AM

>> That only states that the upside-down hanging was one variant, not that it was used on Christ.

I just posted the link for you, because you said generally that you haven't heard about that kind of cruzif. I didn't search for a source on Jesus. If you are interested in it you can search for yourself. We've discussed this at school, too, and had a look at different crosses people were nailed against. What the link that I posted also says is that the version that is widely known nowadays was in reality quite rare in the past.

Posted by: Michelle at August 26, 2003 01:21 AM

>>researchers are/were attempting to exhume the body, but with the church being a holy site they won't stand much of a chance.

Isn't that some sort of hypocrisy? You'd think they'd want to prove he lived. Hmm. That is an interesting theory about the ressurection actually. (They had drugs?) Cool!

Posted by: Sinead at August 26, 2003 08:11 PM

My sister told me when I was 7 that the apostle Peter was crucified upside down. But I've NEVER came across this ever since! Me wonders if she was possibly bullshitting me.... like the time during the Gulf War (early '90s) when she said a nuclear bomb was going to be dropped which would blow up the entire world.

I stressed about this until the deadline passed.... now I wonder just how truthful she was being to me at that time!

But yeah.... Jesus... wow... like, cool!

Posted by: Mel at August 26, 2003 09:21 PM

Je n'ai pas lu cet article!

Mais pourquoi te casses-tu tellement la tête avec Jesus et la religion.

Je te croyais atheist???

Posted by: Solrack at September 15, 2003 06:46 AM

Oui je suis athéiste, mais ça m'intéresse d'un point de vue historique, tout simplement. Et puis je voudrais comprendre les hommes, et ça fait partie de notre culture, que j'y croie ou non.

Posted by: Clarissa at September 15, 2003 02:03 PM

So much has been written about Jesus/Yus being buried in Srinagar and the proof clearly exists. The main problem is not that the proof exists, it is that the Roman Church is still in denial about it and be assured they know about this. They do not want to admit this is fact. Why? Because then their whole dogma (opinion) falls like a house of cards. Jesus was a man, not the god they voted him to be at the Council of Nicea (confirmed by the Catholic Encylopedia). Other information exists which supports it... all sorts of it, including that the Roman church teaches that Mary's family name is Asaf (the same family name as he was known by in India). Rome built a cathedral over Thomas' original gravesite in India... but to do the same with Jesus would really screw them permanently because most of what they teach is false. (The possibility of releasing that info is rumored to have caused at least one pope to be murdered.) Wonder if you have heard that in India they had a commemorative coin minted in Jesus' honor, a LONG time ago. Languge on it was in Pali. If you are interested in more about his gravesite, see, even my skeptical father visited it and saw it, and came away amazed.

Posted by: bird at October 6, 2003 12:26 AM

not only jesus but prophet of islam M.paigamber, Buddha of Buddhism, great scholars ot taosm and and many more have visited INDIA several time. cause INDIA is hub of university of knowledge not only religion but SCIENCE, MATHEMATICS, astro ayURVED, AND MANY MORE.. SO ITS QUT SIGNFCNT AND IT CAN be....

Posted by: Agni at October 8, 2003 05:04 PM

:) Hi, your info is awesome. It is a cool story. I read once where in France people were rebuilding a church and remodling when they found scrolls in the wall

Posted by: Corraa at November 13, 2003 03:35 PM

jesus is portrayed as having commented to go to all nations and convert. None of the apostles left jerusalem(acts8:1), and further the instance of paul being questioned and forced to penalties to confirm as a jew at the temple in 60CE shows clearly that all apostles were jews even 30 years after jesus' alleged resurrection. why?
Roman kingdom remained as 90% Pagan till 325CE, only then on being taken as ruling religion then by force the chirstianity was formed.

Posted by: kristina at February 2, 2004 12:57 PM